00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.180
[Stuart] I am so excited to be here with
Pativee Vanadilok, she's an immigration attorney.
00:00:04.180 --> 00:00:05.260
[Pativee] Hi, everyone!
00:00:05.260 --> 00:00:08.060
[Stuart] She has been instrumental
in helping change the lives of
00:00:08.060 --> 00:00:12.340
so many international students in
terms of helping them process their next
00:00:12.340 --> 00:00:16.080
steps, as far as staying in the
United States, working.
00:00:16.100 --> 00:00:16.660
[Pativee] Yes, yes.
00:00:16.680 --> 00:00:18.760
[Stuart] Thank you for being here, Patty.
00:00:18.760 --> 00:00:21.100
[Pativee] Thanks for inviting me.
I love it, Stuart.
00:00:21.100 --> 00:00:22.980
[Stuart] You're so welcome, I'm so honored.
00:00:22.980 --> 00:00:27.160
[Stuart] So, one of the questions we
wanted to address and it's timely because
00:00:27.160 --> 00:00:31.360
we are here coming up against the graduation date
[Pativee] Correct.
00:00:31.360 --> 00:00:32.820
[Stuart] for many people.
[Pativee] Yep.
00:00:32.820 --> 00:00:36.260
[Stuart] And so, a lot of international
talent is finding themselves in
00:00:36.280 --> 00:00:40.160
their hands they have an EAD card?
[Pativee] Yes.
00:00:40.180 --> 00:00:42.740
[Stuart] The employment authorization card,
[Pativee] Correct.
00:00:42.740 --> 00:00:45.580
[Stuart] but they have no job.
[Pativee] Okay.
00:00:45.580 --> 00:00:48.420
[Stuart] They have nowhere to
deploy their talents.
00:00:48.420 --> 00:00:50.860
[Stuart] So, what advice from an
00:00:50.880 --> 00:00:58.320
international career coach and then also from an immigration attorney, might we offer to people
00:00:58.320 --> 00:01:01.260
[Pativee] Yeah.
[Stuart] in terms of how to make use of the OPT?
00:01:01.260 --> 00:01:03.420
[Pativee] Right, right. Well, I would say if you
00:01:03.420 --> 00:01:07.200
have your OPT and you don't have a
placement yet, you gotta hustle.
00:01:07.200 --> 00:01:10.460
[Pativee] Hustle, hustle, hustle!
Because you do have to know that you only
00:01:10.460 --> 00:01:16.140
have a certain number of days that you
can be unemployed during OPT
00:01:16.140 --> 00:01:18.840
and then you'll kind of be off status, so...
[Stuart] Okay.
00:01:18.860 --> 00:01:24.560
[Pativee] Definitely, if you are if you
are earlier in your planning, that's ideal.
00:01:24.560 --> 00:01:28.620
I mean you need to start planning
your professional progression as
00:01:28.620 --> 00:01:35.160
early as possible. I mean, really day one
of your studies. So, you really have to hustle.
00:01:35.160 --> 00:01:37.160
[Stuart] But, I haven't so that's the issue here.
00:01:37.160 --> 00:01:40.680
[Stuart] I've been just trying to graduate my head down.
[Pativee] Okay.
00:01:40.680 --> 00:01:41.920
[Pativee] You've been studying...
00:01:41.920 --> 00:01:46.120
[Stuart] I've been working hard studying,
making my parents proud...
00:01:46.120 --> 00:01:48.740
[Stuart] But, there's more...
[Pativee] There's lacking on the job, sir.
00:01:48.740 --> 00:01:54.800
[Stuart] Okay, yes. So I am... just because
it's painful, maybe because for various reasons...
00:01:54.800 --> 00:01:59.140
maybe I didn't feel at that time that
I was a strong enough talent...
[Pativee] Right.
00:01:59.140 --> 00:02:04.460
or I just wasn't consistent.
Sometimes, I would burst out resumes and
00:02:04.460 --> 00:02:12.620
but then did not hear back and now here I am
with... I think you have under OPT you have
00:02:12.620 --> 00:02:18.020
three months or 90 days to look
and then you're going back to your
[Pativee] Right.
00:02:18.020 --> 00:02:24.120
original place of residence or
if you're a stem OPT talent,
00:02:24.160 --> 00:02:29.720
you've graduated and you have up to how
long to be looking if it's stem OPT?
00:02:29.720 --> 00:02:34.660
[Stuart] Is it just also 90 days?
[Pativee] I think you get up to 120, but that's cumulative.
00:02:34.660 --> 00:02:39.280
So, that also includes any on the days of
that employment under regular OPT.
00:02:39.280 --> 00:02:44.860
[Stuart] I see, okay. So what do I do like how do I
bootstrap, how do I catch up in my jobs...
00:02:44.860 --> 00:02:49.220
and I'm not asking you as an immigration
attorney to have all the answers but...
[Pativee] Right, right.
00:02:49.220 --> 00:02:54.530
you have this wonderful perspective and
knowledge and now it's the time
00:02:54.530 --> 00:03:00.120
I got three months, as a career coach
of course, I have my suggestions
[Pativee] Yes.
00:03:00.120 --> 00:03:07.300
and, to have you in conversation about this,
I think it helped a lot of people so
00:03:07.300 --> 00:03:11.120
maybe we're gonna be saying the same
thing, but still not because you're
[Pativee] Yeah.
00:03:11.120 --> 00:03:16.540
an attorney and I'm not, so.
[Pativee] I would say, for most of you, you probably
00:03:16.540 --> 00:03:20.020
know what you're supposed to do. It's like
exercising. You know what you need to do
00:03:20.020 --> 00:03:24.400
You just got to do it. So, part of it is
you know, any advice you've gotten from your
00:03:24.410 --> 00:03:29.480
career counseling, you know, offices on
campus part of it is you can get some
00:03:29.480 --> 00:03:34.220
real gems of information from seasoned
professionals like Stuart, things you're
00:03:34.220 --> 00:03:38.930
not gonna learn from the career services
office on your campus. But, it's the
00:03:38.930 --> 00:03:42.760
basics. It's just like exercising. You got
to send out, you go to polish your
00:03:42.760 --> 00:03:45.200
resume, you've got to polish your cover letter
00:03:45.200 --> 00:03:49.080
you've got to send them and you've got
to send them over and over and over again.
00:03:49.080 --> 00:03:51.580
You've got to get yourself out there.
You've got to meet employers.
00:03:51.580 --> 00:03:57.760
You've got to do your networking.
So, it's the basics I mean you know a lot
00:03:57.760 --> 00:04:01.600
more about the nuances than I do but you know...
00:04:01.600 --> 00:04:09.400
One, it starts there. And two, I'm a big fan of
informational interviewing as a way of
00:04:09.400 --> 00:04:14.020
networking and practicing some of
those soft skills so that you get better
00:04:14.020 --> 00:04:18.080
at doing it time and time again because
it's hard searching for a job.
00:04:18.080 --> 00:04:21.020
[Stuart] Patty, thank you. Let's wrap this up
you know. One of the ways that I like to think
00:04:21.020 --> 00:04:28.130
about this is as Michael Porter the
famous professor has explained about
00:04:28.130 --> 00:04:32.060
competitive advantage to a famous
strategy professor. Competitive advantage
00:04:32.060 --> 00:04:38.750
is the layering of individual abilities
and when together provides that
00:04:38.750 --> 00:04:42.720
competitive advantage that allows a
company to win in the marketplace.
[Pativee] Right.
00:04:42.720 --> 00:04:48.040
And so, you know, the way I hear Patty...
One way I hear Patty talking about it is develop a
00:04:48.050 --> 00:04:52.700
competitive advantage. Have the resume,
make it great but don't stop there.
[Pativee] Yes, yes.
00:04:52.700 --> 00:04:57.080
[Pativee] Yeah.
[Stuart] Layer that with informational
interviews, layer that with a work ethic
00:04:57.080 --> 00:05:01.580
which encourages, you know, following up
just like the exercising. I think that
00:05:01.580 --> 00:05:05.160
was a wonderful analogy,
to exercise. It really is like that.
00:05:05.160 --> 00:05:10.540
[Pativee] Yeah, you got to do it. You just, you have to do something related to your job every day.
00:05:10.540 --> 00:05:15.800
Not just on weekends, not just when you feel like it, because it's a numbers game, Stuart.
00:05:15.800 --> 00:05:21.420
The more, I mean you you have to send out at
least a hundred resumes to get two or
00:05:21.420 --> 00:05:26.620
three callbacks, you know, or you may send
out a hundred resumes just to get ten
00:05:26.630 --> 00:05:30.470
people to respond to an email, and then
only two or three of those are going to
00:05:30.470 --> 00:05:35.539
come into, you know, results in a
"Hey, I want to meet you for coffee", coming for
00:05:35.539 --> 00:05:40.070
an interview even. So, that's that's just
what it takes if you sent out ten
00:05:40.070 --> 00:05:43.460
resumes and think that's it. That's not
nearly enough. You just have to keep
00:05:43.460 --> 00:05:47.220
getting yourself out there. But I will
say for international students, I know
00:05:47.220 --> 00:05:51.860
that it's hard because the American
system of searching for a job may be
00:05:51.860 --> 00:05:55.200
very different from how you
get jobs in your home countries, and
00:05:55.200 --> 00:06:00.940
Americans are much more...
they expect you as the person
00:06:00.940 --> 00:06:05.560
searching for a job to be much more
proactive, assertive, aggressive, and being
00:06:05.560 --> 00:06:09.730
an Asian woman I know that that is not,
those are not the traits that you know,
00:06:09.730 --> 00:06:16.840
most Asian women are you know, culturally
trained to be. But, you do have to work
00:06:16.840 --> 00:06:22.000
ten times harder than any of your
American counterparts and so, you know
00:06:22.000 --> 00:06:26.170
part of it is, it's the numbers game and
you've got to be sending out a hundred,
00:06:26.170 --> 00:06:29.740
five hundred resumes just to get a
couple of people to call you back and
00:06:29.740 --> 00:06:34.840
that's just the reality. The second part
of it is even if you are nervous about
00:06:34.840 --> 00:06:41.960
your interviewing skills or you are nervous
about your language skills, it's practice.
00:06:41.960 --> 00:06:48.670
So again, the numbers, it's still
a numbers game so, you know, chances are
00:06:48.670 --> 00:06:52.620
you're going to send out your resume and
and you're going to get a callback by
00:06:52.630 --> 00:06:57.300
someone and you're going to have either
a coffee, you know, little get-together or
00:06:57.310 --> 00:07:01.180
you're gonna have an interview that just
flops, and it's gonna be terrible and
00:07:01.180 --> 00:07:05.350
you're gonna stumble on all of your
words you're not gonna like click with
00:07:05.350 --> 00:07:07.140
whoever your interviewer is.
[Stuart] Right.
00:07:07.140 --> 00:07:12.300
[Pativee] It happens! Get over it. Develop a tough skin...
[Stuart] Right. Just think about two Americans
00:07:12.300 --> 00:07:16.100
meeting each other by two nationals from
another country meeting each other.
00:07:16.100 --> 00:07:18.020
It's not always a perfect match.
[Pativee] Right.
00:07:18.020 --> 00:07:19.960
[Stuart] Why should it be for...
[Pativee] But it's a practice for you. it's
00:07:19.960 --> 00:07:24.780
It's practice for you to practice your spiel,
your response, the questions.
00:07:24.800 --> 00:07:30.300
If the interviewer asks you, it's an opportunity
for you to practice it, and so it's never
00:07:30.300 --> 00:07:34.820
a lost opportunity, it's never gonna feel
good, but you got to do it.
[Stuart] Yeah.
00:07:34.820 --> 00:07:38.820
[Stuart] I mean, that's the way I like to think about
my career coaching. It's because, you know as
00:07:38.840 --> 00:07:44.200
an American executive, now serving as a
career coach I have... I teach from
00:07:44.200 --> 00:07:49.040
experience having had some lucky breaks
but also tons of mistakes and errors and...
[Pativee] Right...
00:07:49.040 --> 00:07:54.140
[Pativee] and hard lucks... right, right!
[Stuart] and more about the mistakes and
errors there... and falling down
00:07:54.140 --> 00:08:01.600
[Stuart] then a lucky breaks and so I think
of an effective coaching experience if
[Pativee] And no one talks about those... right, right.
00:08:01.600 --> 00:08:06.010
you're thinking about coaching as not
just how do I get the offer, because
[Pativee] Right.
00:08:06.010 --> 00:08:11.400
generally what happens is here is the
offer and here somewhere is your level
00:08:11.400 --> 00:08:16.120
of professionalism and what's
going to happen is as time passes you're
[Pativee] Right.
00:08:16.120 --> 00:08:19.640
going to be able to get the offer that
matches your level of professionalism.
[Pativee] Right.
00:08:19.640 --> 00:08:23.380
[Stuart] And so if your target is
the Google, the Goldman Sachs or the
MBB (McKinsey, Bain, Boston Consulting Group)
00:08:23.380 --> 00:08:27.920
then we're talking about a trajectory
that needs to look like this to get there.
[Pativee] Right, right.
00:08:27.920 --> 00:08:31.980
And, if you're saying "Hey you know...
I'm gonna, I'm planning to be here or I
[Pativee] Right, right.
00:08:31.990 --> 00:08:36.310
might end up here if I'm not
careful, or if I'm not practicing...
[Pativee] Right, right.
00:08:36.310 --> 00:08:40.510
might end up here and then fall short
and then be available for offers which
[Pativee] Right.
00:08:40.510 --> 00:08:44.800
are not what you want. They don't match
your specialty, they don't give you the
[Pativee] Right, right.
00:08:44.800 --> 00:08:48.970
training and respect that you're hoping
to achieve... and I understand having been
[Pativee] Right, right.
00:08:48.970 --> 00:08:53.640
a graduate... I mean I'm shooting for the
moon, I want the best! You know, and you
[Pativee] Absolutely!
00:08:53.650 --> 00:08:59.080
should too and so where I think coaching
can be the most impactful it is that
00:08:59.080 --> 00:09:05.470
transformation of getting the offer.
But it's also on that path where all the
[Pativee] Yes, right.
00:09:05.470 --> 00:09:10.060
magic happens. And that magic happens
through the practice right through the
[Pativee] Right.
00:09:10.060 --> 00:09:13.740
practice of getting out there and
realizing... Wow! There are numbers
00:09:13.740 --> 00:09:18.600
involved here. It's not you know, you know
just shoot, shoot, and score every time.
[Pativee] Right.
00:09:18.600 --> 00:09:23.260
Wayne Gretzky says "Hey"... Okay, so
okay I'm a hockey guy I love hockey.
00:09:23.300 --> 00:09:28.040
Wayne Gretzky talking about - maybe we edit this out, maybe we don’t - but Wayne Gretsky...
00:09:28.040 --> 00:09:33.440
says you know, you only score if you take
a shot on goal. And so me being a
[Pativee] Yeah.
00:09:33.440 --> 00:09:38.220
hockey fan I think about ice hockey but
you have to shoot to score. And so,
[Pativee] Right.
00:09:38.220 --> 00:09:43.340
that shooting process and the practice
process involves often missing.
[Pativee] Right.
00:09:43.340 --> 00:09:49.320
[Stuart] But, every time it's a rich experience.
[Pativee] Absolutely, and all of the skills that you practice
00:09:49.320 --> 00:09:53.660
and get better through the career process
00:09:53.660 --> 00:09:57.420
and the the job search process, you're
gonna use in your career, frankly. I mean
00:09:57.420 --> 00:10:02.190
no matter what, just as you work to you
work for your business as always...
00:10:02.190 --> 00:10:06.980
marketing for prospective customers or
clients, you're going to have to convince
00:10:06.990 --> 00:10:12.480
someone in your department or in your
company to, you know, recognize the work
00:10:12.500 --> 00:10:15.750
you've done and you know, that you
deserve the promotion. I mean you're
00:10:15.750 --> 00:10:20.480
always going to have to use those skills
so you know, this is a great place to
00:10:20.480 --> 00:10:23.480
practice the skills you will
use in your career anyway.
50% Complete
FREE 20-minute training to transform how you think about your job hunt.
